Battlegrounds & Misc. PvP Questions – Community Q&A

Thumbless_Bot

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Khajiit thinks that if the current BG options remained and the old 4v4v4 options returned, things would be wonderful!

Nord agrees.

NoSoup

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Khajiit thinks that if the current BG options remained and the old 4v4v4 options returned, things would be wonderful!

I struggle to understand this line of thought. Last night (Aus time) I had to wait 18 minutes for a queue pop on 4x4 (I'm guessing my higher leaning MMR doesn't help). Surely increasing the number of players required to get a match from 8 to 12 is only going to further exasberate the issue of long queue times.

My two biggest grips with the current setup is 4x4 being the default choice. When BGs participation is linked to endeavours/pursuits you get a lot of people queing that have 0 intention of playing, they simply stand at spawn and wait until the spawn timer pulls them down, throw off a few skills, die and then stand at spawn doing nothing. This is the single biggest frustration of BGs for me.

My next gripe is the very limited opportunities you are given to adjust your build to suit both the team you've been placed in and the opposition. Being able to use the Armor Assistant pre start, or even having an Armory station at spawn would be a god send.

ChaoticWings3

My participation in battlegrounds has generally decreased. Multiple reasons though, more games I'm playing besides ESO (although I still play for a couple hours every day I am playing other games to keep from burning out), events that are oriented to non-pvp related things because I like collecting motifs to customize my characters, and the death match set up is a bit disappointing in the 4v4 line.

I don't know if I'm in the minority of this but when the 4v4 came on for death match with the lives system I noticed an extreme disparity between teams. If one team is generally doing better and eliminates 1 or 2 players lives stock early on it then becomes a 2v4 and because of cross healing it can become a losing battle for the side with 2 since you won't have enough dps to score a kill. I especially noticed this when I had a match where 2 NBs were on the opposite team. My team focused on them until their lives ran out which only left 1 Sorc tank and a decent pvp player. Since the Sorc was mostly buffs, self heals, and debuffs the team focused on the one player that could do any real damage and because all of us had group heals our team was practically invincible by comparison. Its very rare where I see a close match between players. I wish the old format with no lives was available for a 4v4 so it won't feel unfair for one side. If the NBs remained a threat on the battlefield they would have gotten a few more kills and it would have been a closer game. Winning with like 7 heals going off every 3 seconds against 2 players feels very boring to me.

I didn't really say this before because I didn't realize there was a question related to BGs so I'm just saying this here. The elimination style is interesting but it feels a bit niche to me by comparison.

TumlinTheJolly

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Spawn & Respawn Questions
Q. Will you introduce spawn immunity in Battlegrounds? - r0lyat
A. Introducing spawn immunity to Battlegrounds is something we’ve thought about. The way it would need to work, is spawn immunity would suppress all combat-related actions while a player is in that state. This means that when you have spawn immunity in a Battleground, you would not be able to use any skills, couldn’t activate buff effects before you get into combat, or heal allies who are fighting out of spawn as you come down, couldn’t gain Ultimate, etc.

Suppressing all combat-related actions could be pretty disruptive and interrupts the natural flow of combat, so while it is possible, it does come with some potentially negative trade-offs that we would need to consider.

I made a post about this a while ago. The idea I had was to just make all players spawn with a temporary buff that gives them damage reduction (perhaps halve all incoming damage) and a huge boost to their damage (perhaps 1.5-2x damage). This would incentivize players to jump down from spawn and use their big damage buff before it falls off, instead of just AFKing at spawn to avoid spawn campers. It'd also make enemy players far more wary of hanging out below enemy spawn and camping it.

From a coding perspective, this would also be FAR easier to implement than trying to apply immunity and ability disable to a specific area.

Chrisilis

NoSoup wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Khajiit thinks that if the current BG options remained and the old 4v4v4 options returned, things would be wonderful!

I struggle to understand this line of thought. Last night (Aus time) I had to wait 18 minutes for a queue pop on 4x4 (I'm guessing my higher leaning MMR doesn't help). Surely increasing the number of players required to get a match from 8 to 12 is only going to further exasberate the issue of long queue times.

My two biggest grips with the current setup is 4x4 being the default choice. When BGs participation is linked to endeavours/pursuits you get a lot of people queing that have 0 intention of playing, they simply stand at spawn and wait until the spawn timer pulls them down, throw off a few skills, die and then stand at spawn doing nothing. This is the single biggest frustration of BGs for me.

My next gripe is the very limited opportunities you are given to adjust your build to suit both the team you've been placed in and the opposition. Being able to use the Armor Assistant pre start, or even having an Armory station at spawn would be a god send.[/quote



Regarding queue times (mine are long as **** too, takes a whole hour to play two matches, its ridiculous), in 8v8 you'd go from 16 players to 12 players, you would need less people. So there's that.

Regarding three sided battlegrounds, still waiting on these special BG weekends/events that bring that mode back regularly.. It's been 117 days since update 44, just shy of 1/3 of a year. I get letting the new format set in and all but it would be nice if the "regularly scheduled" events were, you know, scheduled.

AngryNecro

I've never been able to understand why you can't communicate with players on the forum in the form of a question and answer.

The main problem with the current BG is that there are too many options to use the loopholes that you have left for casualness.
Namely, the spawn zone, the ability to stay on it, the ability to fire it on the same map, and the height difference. I remember a lot of cases when players, knowing that they would lose at the bottom, stayed on the spawn and used long-range attacks or tried to disrupt the timing of the start of the battle. There is no need to go far. One of the players present at the last event in the top 10 used the tactics of healing the group directly from the spawn zone. He didn't do anything else but stand on the spawn and heal. As a result, he has a lot of points, and about 80% of his fights were losses.

From here, you can proceed to healers. Why do we even need clean healers in BG? We're gladiators. ZOS please look on last event 8/10 playrse from top 10 its HEALERS! how it can be normal? on forum we have too many team about healers on BG why nothing about that in yours intevio? how it can be? too many team about healers and medal score. how you can explane 8/10 healers in top 10?
All cross heall need be cut on BG more than on 50% and score for heal need be cuted too. Im realy tired found 1-3 DD in top 10 every week. You're just killing the original meaning of the Arenas. There should be gladiators in the Arenas. What kind of gladiators are you if you have healers in the first place? Healers are not gladiators. We don't need healers in BG.

About mmr reload. its weary tired play on wery hight mmr with today rules. it need realoded if you dont whant fix spawn zone heall and els problem. oh and playrs with low mmr must not forget that our battles last all the allotted time. When you play with a high mmr, you end the battle in time, not in points. Because of this, we earn less AP.

About team distribution. I just hate when weak teams dilute me. We don't have normal communication methods, it takes a long time to write in a chat, many people don't listen, often they don't even understand what you're talking about, they don't know tactics. Adding a strong player to a weak team is the worst thing you can think of. This only leads to conflict situations in which ZOS will always side with players who had no idea what to do on BG, and then took offense.

Score Score Score. Score is problem. no score for kills in flag mode, you need kill dude to nerly flag for get it. Healers in top 10, they dont must be theare. no score for control and buff/debuff. No score for tanking (tiny dude with bow and tiny nb parasitite on that and think they can do same when get damage).

Too many problem and no one solutions in 45up. too mony problem loose in that youre post. Enough time. Many of the problems are more than obvious. You've had the best gladiators and healers for a third of a year now. Well, how can you look at it every week and see that 90% of the top 10 consists of healers and not do anything about it? BG need serious work.

NoSoup

AngryNecro wrote: »

I've never been able to understand why you can't communicate with players on the forum in the form of a question and answer.

The main problem with the current BG is that there are too many options to use the loopholes that you have left for casualness.
Namely, the spawn zone, the ability to stay on it, the ability to fire it on the same map, and the height difference. I remember a lot of cases when players, knowing that they would lose at the bottom, stayed on the spawn and used long-range attacks or tried to disrupt the timing of the start of the battle. There is no need to go far. One of the players present at the last event in the top 10 used the tactics of healing the group directly from the spawn zone. He didn't do anything else but stand on the spawn and heal. As a result, he has a lot of points, and about 80% of his fights were losses.

From here, you can proceed to healers. Why do we even need clean healers in BG? We're gladiators. ZOS please look on last event 8/10 playrse from top 10 its HEALERS! how it can be normal? on forum we have too many team about healers on BG why nothing about that in yours intevio? how it can be? too many team about healers and medal score. how you can explane 8/10 healers in top 10?
All cross heall need be cut on BG more than on 50% and score for heal need be cuted too. Im realy tired found 1-3 DD in top 10 every week. You're just killing the original meaning of the Arenas. There should be gladiators in the Arenas. What kind of gladiators are you if you have healers in the first place? Healers are not gladiators. We don't need healers in BG.

About mmr reload. its weary tired play on wery hight mmr with today rules. it need realoded if you dont whant fix spawn zone heall and els problem. oh and playrs with low mmr must not forget that our battles last all the allotted time. When you play with a high mmr, you end the battle in time, not in points. Because of this, we earn less AP.

About team distribution. I just hate when weak teams dilute me. We don't have normal communication methods, it takes a long time to write in a chat, many people don't listen, often they don't even understand what you're talking about, they don't know tactics. Adding a strong player to a weak team is the worst thing you can think of. This only leads to conflict situations in which ZOS will always side with players who had no idea what to do on BG, and then took offense.

Score Score Score. Score is problem. no score for kills in flag mode, you need kill dude to nerly flag for get it. Healers in top 10, they dont must be theare. no score for control and buff/debuff. No score for tanking (tiny dude with bow and tiny nb parasitite on that and think they can do same when get damage).

Too many problem and no one solutions in 45up. too mony problem loose in that youre post. Enough time. Many of the problems are more than obvious. You've had the best gladiators and healers for a third of a year now. Well, how can you look at it every week and see that 90% of the top 10 consists of healers and not do anything about it? BG need serious work.

I've been on the PC/NA leaderboard every week for the last 5 weeks, last week had 2 characters on it and this week on track for 3. I wouldn't consider any of my characters as "healers". Sure, they all have a healing skill because you can't rely on being grouped with someone that can effectively heal the whole team, so self heals are imperative. I don't do insane damage but generally finish first or second on that front. I've also become quite familiar with the names of frequent leaderboard attendees and for most part they're players that create a lot pressure for opponents more so than carrying their teams with heals (of course, there are a couple of exceptions)


The point of capture the flag is to capture the flag. Too many players join these matches running around just aimlessly trying to kill the first opposition player they see and their team generally ends up lossing, becasue you guessed it, they weren't capturing the flag. If they started awarding more points for killing in capture the flag you'd just get more lost souls thinking they were in a deathmatch and not a capture the flag.

AngryNecro

NoSoup wrote: »

I've been on the PC/NA leaderboard every week for the last 5 weeks, last week had 2 characters on it and this week on track for 3. I wouldn't consider any of my characters as "healers". Sure, they all have a healing skill because you can't rely on being grouped with someone that can effectively heal the whole team, so self heals are imperative. I don't do insane damage but generally finish first or second on that front. I've also become quite familiar with the names of frequent leaderboard attendees and for most part they're players that create a lot pressure for opponents more so than carrying their teams with heals (of course, there are a couple of exceptions)


The point of capture the flag is to capture the flag. Too many players join these matches running around just aimlessly trying to kill the first opposition player they see and their team generally ends up lossing, becasue you guessed it, they weren't capturing the flag. If they started awarding more points for killing in capture the flag you'd just get more lost souls thinking they were in a deathmatch and not a capture the flag.

I play on PC/EU usualy in top 30-10. and in top 10 we realy have problem with full healers. i play with all playrse from that top in my team or in enemy and full healers alwayse on eye. Corse DD have self heall and cross heall but problem in abuse crit heall for score.

I see that only on low mmr. no i tell obout for example MotKa - centre flag, you need kill dude only on centre zone with cobblestones, but no some back. i meen if playre start in batele for flag them kill must be go in score be it in 5m from flag or 20. And what about NB who wanna kill dude on run to flag? Hunter's Fortress - we can kill enemy team in run to flag from bridge but it not go in score. Killing opponents on the approach to the flag is a good tactic that is not encouraged in any way

AngryNecro

After solving the problem of healers I would like to see more cool and brutal cosmetics for BG high end players for rewards.

More skull masks, much more. (the last one was Kjalner's mask and it's pve, we don't have many skulls)

More brutal emotions (whatever the pieces of death-metal songs)

Wanna more brutality around BG. come on we gladiators, not cave explorers.

TyrantNikolai

8v8 I can understand wanting to hurry up and get people into the action. 4v4 however is supposed to be competitive and you want to be matched up with people who at least attempted to make a pvp build and not a pve tank thinking they can taunt players lol.In other words there should NOT be a deserter buff or limit it to 2 minutes before the match is about to begin to avoid abuse. We should not force a player with the intention of winning with a troll tank or 16k health novice. Make a time period (30 seconds) to decide whether u want to commit with a group or bail followed by a 30 seconds prep which locks you in with a group.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@ZOS_Kevin Any update on when the next part it releasing? mainly PvP Combat & Itemization

Was this intentionally held back due to the changes coming with subclassing?

Kungfu

ACK... how did I end up in this thread posting about Vengeance? lol whoops.
Moving it to the other Q&A pinned one.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Any update on when the next part it releasing? mainly PvP Combat & Itemization

Was this intentionally held back due to the changes coming with subclassing?

@ZOS_Kevin did the translation of the next batch of questions finish yet or is it likely to come after the subclassing patch? I fear that a lot of questions might be outdated anyway soon so might be worth gathering new ones or at least considering if the ones you are answering are still relevant.

xylena_lazarow

Is MMR still being reset in the 8v8? If so, it needs to stop. We shouldn't be seeing basically entire teams of noobs against entire teams of vets like this. There's gotta be a better way to do it.

TumlinTheJolly

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Can we please let games start with 7 players?

Many games fail to start because 1 player is missing. This happens VERY often in group queue, because if one player fails to accept the queue pop it struggles to find a solo player to fill the single spot.

Everyone I've talked to would much prefer to play a 7v8 than wait out the timer and then have to sit through another queue.