opinions on stage 3 Vamp in PvP ?

Theignson

For a long time stage 3 vamp was good in PvP.

What do people think now after the nerf to damage reduction?

You lose 60% Health recovery, take +13% flame damage, and your regular abilities cost 8% more.

Meanwhile you get up to 15% damage reduction, and your vamp abilities cost less. Are people still equipping Vamp stage 3? I have been, but mostly from ennui

SkaraMinoc

Optional.

The 15% damage reduction is multiplicative with other damage mitigation, including resist. You really only get about 12% because once you get down to 20% health remaining, you're already in execute range. The goal of Vamp 3 is to keep you out of execute range and now that the damage reduction was nerfed from 30% -> 15%, it doesn't do that good of a job anymore.

If you have defensive Blue and Red CP with Minor Protection and 30k+ armor, you won't notice a difference whether you have Vamp 3 or not. Remember, Vamp 3 is multiplicative so if you already had 50%+ mitigation then Vamp 3 is halved. At 50% health remaining you will have 15 * 0.5 * 0.5 which is only 3.75% damage reduction from Vamp 3. It's not noticeable.

Vamp is something you want to avoid if you are a Stam Sorc w/ Sithis and Orzorga's Bear Haunch. Otherwise you lose out on a large amount of health recovery. Something like 10-15% of your healing will be Base Recovery on that build. Sithis is still viable on a Roll Sorc especially in U46 now that Templar Beam is dodgeable.

Fighting a DK with Pyrebrand is not something where you want Vamp 3. About 40% of that build's damage is fire so you're buffing their DPS by something like 5.2%. Vamp 3 scaling doesn't offset the damage until way down at < 40% health. It's not worth it.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Only normally take Vamp 3 on builds that require vamp (like ganking/bombing) these days.
Personally I think the vamp negatives have always been too punishing, the only reason it was good before was because of this passive. I'd rather see vamp adjusted to be less punishing but also have more interesting abilities.

e.g. bring back old Batswarm & Mistform,

darvaria

I no longer use it. That 12% isn't worth it.

Theignson

Thanks for answers!

Would you dump vamp altogether or are certain skills such as blood for blood still worth the stage one costs?

Joy_Division

Think Blood for Blood is what is most appealing vampwise

Turtle_Bot

I personally keep stage 1 for the sneak passive (removal of speed penalty in sneak), since sneak is so slow without that passive.
Not much else interests me from vampire though outside of mist form for a non class-locked teleport, but with sub-classing, every class will have streak, even pre-nerf undeath I wasn't a fan of, but had to run it because it was so stupidly overpowered.

Blood for Blood is a very strong spammable, so I can see use for that if your class doesn't have a strong spammable already.

I mostly miss the old bat swarm ultimate, that was one of my favourite ultimates alongside pre-nerf eye of the storm.

Thumbless_Bot

It's not 15 or 12% ever. Its negligible unless you are in execute.

It's 7.5% at max as it is multiplicative. If you have 33.5k resist you are at 50% mitigation. 15% of the remainder is 7.5%. Slightly more if your resists are less.

You are at 0% mitigation at full health and goes up linearly to 7.5 as your health goes down.

you ALWAYS take 13% more flame damage. And this damage is ADDITIVE.

Your skills cost 8% more. All of them except those amazing vampire skills...like bfb...

You get 300 weapon damage when coming out of sneak or invis.

You get to go into sneak in half the time.

You have to eat food or feed to maintain level... usually both and the food ain't cheap.

If you think it's worth it, I've got a bridge in Arizona for sale.... really cheap.

WaywardArgonian

Optional in the sense that you can use it but it's by no means a requirement, and on many builds it'll just actively hurt you more than it helps you.

I think the only builds where Vampire is still good are builds where you either need a skill from it, or Nightblade/gank builds where you can use the sneak perk and the higher damage when leaving sneak. Even then it's a question whether you want to go to stage 3.

By the way, even before the nerf, the idea that you needed vamp 3 in PVP was wildly exaggerated. It was super strong on builds that could survive in execute range - so higher health, relatively tanky. I remember in no-proc where people played vamp 3, Pariah and pre-change Mist Form, and they could absorb so much pressure. However, I was often told 'it's free 30% mitigation', which isn't true because that 30% only came into effect when you were pretty much dead and the sustain penalty/higher damage from siege didn't make it free. Especially on healers and in groups of 5 or more, I don't think vampire 3 was ever worth it. It certainly isn't now. Just adding this here in case someone tells you to run it because 'it's free 15% mitigation'.

Veinblood1965

I've always just ran stage 4 as a gank blade, even more so after the recent shadows change/nerf. Just easier to get a good run and then sneak into the middle of a group. I tried running three on my non NB toons and in PVP really didn't notice any benefits, I died just as fast with it as without it and used my skills and using terrain etc to live.

AngryNecro

on almost all builds, I have both damage reduction buffs working, which is 15% + on necromancer, it's 25% with ghost. You can also reduce debuff damage. putting the 3rd stage of vampirism on top makes no sense at all.
But the second stage is absolutely necessary for me. It pisses me off that most players don't attack out of stealth when the opportunity arises. So you need a pass for a quick entry and 300 weapons, especially since the second stage is very easy in terms of debuffs.
and more, 15% damage red start work not on 25% hp all 15% you get i dont remember or on 5% or on 10% hp. so if we get midle hp on 1vsX bild 28k 5% its 1400hp. on that voluem -15% not help you

SkaraMinoc

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Vamp is something you want to avoid if you are a Stam Sorc w/ Sithis and Orzorga's Bear Haunch. Otherwise you lose out on a large amount of health recovery. Something like 10-15% of your healing will be Base Recovery on that build.

Here's some real data for health recovery (base regen). It can be quite good.

Theignson

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Vamp is something you want to avoid if you are a Stam Sorc w/ Sithis and Orzorga's Bear Haunch. Otherwise you lose out on a large amount of health recovery. Something like 10-15% of your healing will be Base Recovery on that build.

Here's some real data for health recovery (base regen). It can be quite good.

But is that pvp? Orz + sithis = 1500 or so but it is cut in half by battlespirit, where do you get the other 1500

SkaraMinoc

Theignson wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Vamp is something you want to avoid if you are a Stam Sorc w/ Sithis and Orzorga's Bear Haunch. Otherwise you lose out on a large amount of health recovery. Something like 10-15% of your healing will be Base Recovery on that build.

Here's some real data for health recovery (base regen). It can be quite good.

But is that pvp? Orz + sithis = 1500 or so but it is cut in half by battlespirit, where do you get the other 1500

Sorc gets 20% from skill passives (nerfed next patch)
Continuous Attack gives 20%
Tri potions gives 30%
3 heavy gives 12%